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war peddlaz | 20 comments (20 topical, editorial, 0 pending)
Should people do this? none (#1)
by Anonymous Hero on Sun Sep 16th, 2001 at 13:24:25 GMT

Is there any difference in posting this data and saying "Hey! 13 Main St leaves their door unlocked!"? Security through obscurity probably isn't a good strategy, and if someone really wants to do some nasty hacking stuff, they'll go find the way to do it, but, well, what do other people think?



Re: Should people do this? none (#2)
by Anonymous Hero on Sun Sep 16th, 2001 at 15:38:32 GMT

Absolutely. Likening this scanning behavior to telling people who doesn't lock their house is kind of silly. After all, if I rob your television, you've lost something of value. If I hop on your unprotected wireless network and use your internet connection for a while, you've lost nothing but unused bandwidth. People who feel violated by this behavior often are trying to compare it to some sort of real-world crime, and we must refrain from doing that. We are borrowing unprotected resources--not assaulting, stealing, or causing damage. It's more like using the bathroom at McDonalds without purchasing anything.

Either way, if you do not want people using your wireless network, you should take measures to secure it. How else can you discern between friendly open networks, and private ones?


[ Parent ]


Re: Should people do this? none (#3)
by Anonymous Hero on Sun Sep 16th, 2001 at 19:18:19 GMT

Your line of thought follows that of the average spammer:


    "This mail server is an 'unprotected'
    open relay. They aren't using all of
    their bandwidth or server capacity
    so they wouldn't mind if I used some..."


It is just as WRONG to steal physical objects from someone as it is to steal services (ie. bandwidth) that they pay for. Where has the conscience of the average person gone?


-Mike


[ Parent ]


Re: Should people do this? none (#4)
by Anonymous Hero on Mon Sep 17th, 2001 at 03:00:02 GMT

Sorry, I have to kinda agree with Mike on this one. Many companies (in the US, might be different overseas), pay for a limited amount of bandwidth (100MBps/day, 200MBps/day, etc). Using their bandwidth, protected or not, is theft. Ether is still ether. Sorry guys, I just don't agree with it. -J/Rod

[ Parent ]


 
Your address please? none (#5)
by jbrw on Mon Sep 17th, 2001 at 13:15:17 GMT
(User Info) http://www.newsfilter.co.uk/

Can you leave your door unlocked and give me your address in case I need to go to your bathroom (or watch your TV) when I am in your neighbourhood? I promise not to steal anything or do something bad!

(Ofcourse, I might have a quick peek at your bank statements if they're not too well hidden and my curiosity gets the better of me...)

...j

[ Parent ]


 
2.4 GHz is public none (#12)
by Anonymous Hero on Tue Oct 30th, 2001 at 12:49:41 GMT

Listening to network traffic that goes via 802.11b cannot be compared to someone checking the frontdoor to see if it's locked or not.

The transmittions in 2.4GHz are public, you don't need any licens to transmit or receive and that's why 802.11 and wireless phones (not cell phones) uses this frequency. If someone are dumb enough to transmit sensitive data without encryption at this frequency I'm free to read it.

But I agree that "steeling" bandwidth is not a good thing to do, and it's presumably not legal. But it is worse than reading someones e-mails, maybe some rival company submitting a tender to a shared customer? That, my friend, are legal (at least in Sweden).

I would like to compare 802.11 with the amateur radio transmittions. Anyone can by a receiver and listen to Alice when she talks to Bob, that's why they don't tell secrets this way without talking in code.

Here in Sweden they used to scan the NMT-network (used by analogous cellphone) as an argument for using the new GSM-technology. You could walk right in to a store and the salesman would receive one part of a dialogue transmitted via NMT at the same time as he said "Do you want anyone to be able to listen to your phone calls like we do now? No? Then use this new GSM-device for just 1300 US$." And it was legal, however we could discuss the shameless price for the new cell phone.

If we do not keep yelling that some things are bad (not secure) people will consider them secure and they will be fucked by the government/crime-syndicate/competing companies.


When using wireless accesspoints you _must_ use

1. Network login - No access beyond AP if not logged in.
2. VPN - Encrypt your data or die. And this is not WEP. Use WEP and you'll die anyway. :)

/Jonte

[ Parent ]


 

war peddlaz | 20 comments (20 topical, editorial, 0 pending)
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